Interview with Old Testament Figures – Joshua

 Fiction is using imagination to birth a reality of sort. That is what we have tried to do with the interview series. We do not aim at adding to Scriptures or taking them out of context. Our major goal is to let Old Testament figures share their experiences with us, particularly their encounters with God, as well as speak to the issues that affect our lives as believers in Yeshua. This month’s interviewee is Joshua, the son of Nun. He was introduced to us in Numbers 13:1 as one of the twelve spies of Israel sent by Moses to explore the land of Canaan. After the death of Moses, he led the Israelites in the conquest of Canaan, and allotted land to the tribes.

Shepherd Heart: We are honoured by your presence Sir.

Joshua: My pleasure. Thank you for having me.

Shepherd Heart: Our readers would love to know more about you. Although we have given a brief citation on you, it is always good and more productive to hear from the horses’ mouth.

Joshua: Yeah. I agree with you. I was born in Egypt to the Nun family from the tribe of Ephraim. As you rightly pointed out in the introduction, I was just a normal Jewish young man engaging in the business of tending animals until Moses included me among the 12 spies he sent to explore the Promised Land. I guess that the report Caleb and I submitted which ran against the fear-filled one presented by the other 10 spies made Moses to have special interest in the two of us. Over a period of time, it was natural that he should want me by his side as he tried to lead the people to Canaan.

Shepherd Heart: What was the nature of your relationship with Caleb after the fiasco that led to the LORD punishing Israel with a detour into the wilderness for 40 years?

Joshua: Caleb and I were quite close. We both had confidence in God, having seen the punishment He meted out to Pharaoh and his gods. We were convinced that He was powerful enough to fulfil His promises to us regarding change of ownership of the land in Canaan. Of course, my relationship with Moses took precedent over others because he (Moses) had so much to do as leader of a multitude of people and he appreciated my assistance.

Shepherd Heart: You have mentioned the powerful testimony God gave of Himself through the things He did in Egypt and the crossing of the Red Sea. What was responsible for the lack of trust in Him by the generality of the people?

Joshua: I believe that our long stay in Egypt contributed to the incessant complaints against God and Moses in the camp. I also believe that we made a mistake by allowing the mixed multitudes to follow us. They were not used to the ways of God. In Exodus 3 verses 7 to 10, God said, “I have surely seen the affliction of My people who are in Egypt and have heard their cry on account of their task-master, for I know their sorrows. Therefore, I have come down to deliver them out of the hand of the Egyptians, and to bring them up out of that land to a good and spacious land, to a land flowing with milk and honey, to the place of the Canaanites, the Hittites, the Amorites, the Perizzites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites. Now therefore, the cry of the children of Israel has come to Me. Moreover, I have also seen the oppression with which the Egyptians are oppressing them. Come now therefore, and I will send you to Pharaoh so that you may bring forth My people, the children of Israel out of Egypt”. This text clearly shows that the focus of God’s intervention in Egypt was the Israeli tribes. 

Shepherd Heart: I have often wondered why the people of Israel accommodated the mixed multitudes on the journey to the Promised Land. Why did you take them along with you?

Joshua: I guess that we were too engrossed with our superstardom in Egypt to be more discerning of who we kept company with. Many people in the country were excited to relate with us because of the things God did there. It is also important to note that wealthy Israelis kept slaves; while others who joined the throng were friends and acquaintances of Israelis. It was a bad decision to have taken them along. But we were too thrilled with our deliverance to make a proper assessment of the situation.

Shepherd Heart: I can now understand why God instructs His children to separate from unbelievers. 1 Corinthians 15:33 is emphatic that “bad company corrupts good character”. When you eventually realised that they were the dead flies that polluted your ointment according to Ecclesiastes 10:1, did you do anything to address the situation?

Joshua: That is a very difficult question. I wasn’t in-charge of the Exodus until Moses passed on. In fact, the issue did not come up because most of the rebellion against Moses’ leadership were channelled through leaders of the respective tribes. It’s true that the mixed multitudes were the source of some of the complaints, especially the ridiculous allusion to how they enjoyed cucumber and garlic in Egypt. Nobody forced them to join our company. All they needed to do was return to the country and we would not have stopped any of them.

Shepherd Heart: (Laughter) It is the same in our generation. Many people look for every opportunity to murmur and complain about what God is doing or has not done in their lives. They grumble when it rains. They murmur when it doesn’t rain. That’s a sickness of the mind caused by the sin virus that Adam and Eve received from satan. How were you able to cope with their self-centred and ungrateful disposition after you took over from Moses?

Joshua: After Moses died, I made it clear to the tribal leaders that I would not brook any mutiny in the camp. They knew me to be a man of my word so nobody tried to play the fool. I was fair to everyone and I made it abundantly clear that I would only take decisions approved by God. So, everyone knew what to expect from me right from the onset of my leadership.

Shepherd Heart: You have watched us from the portals of heaven and have seen how much we struggle to do God’s will on this side of heaven. What would you say is the major problem with our generation?

Joshua: Hmm. Another tough one. Basically, your generation is much more disadvantaged than ours. In our days, God was very visible in His operations. Believers then did not have problem seeing God in action. In the case of ancient Israel, God’s presence was too visible to be doubted. Of course, we also paid dearly for the close contact with Him. Thousands of Israelites perished in the wilderness when God came down to deal with rebellion in the camp. The greatest undoing of your generation is the tendency to equate gain with godliness. Therefore, God is now projected as a means to an end- the gains. This could be having or building a lucrative career, marrying the man or woman of your dream, having the required number of children, et cetera. That is not the way God wants humans to treat Him. It is offensive to Him when He is sought for what He can give rather than for His person. Even humans take offense at being used.

Shepherd Heart: Guilty as charged! We have our church leaders to blame for this erroneous representation of the personality of God. He is loving and desires to bless us more than we know. But a productive relationship cannot be built on exploitation of His kindness. That is what most of us do. We are not interested in doing His will. All we crave is the blessings that He daily bestows. How can we tackle this problem?

Joshua: People must return to the word of God. The Bible must not be used to fish for revelations, but to get to know God better. Why do people of your generation need to pray about these mundane things anyway? Paul the apostle asked a very pertinent question in Romans 8:32- “He who did not spare His own Son but gave Him up for us all, how will He not also, along with Him freely give us all things?” Yeshua also alluded to the importance of trusting in God’s providence in Mathew 6:34 where He addressed some of the issues that agitate the minds of humans, including what to eat, wear or drink. In verses 32-33 He said, “For the Gentiles strive after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them. But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things will be added to you”. There is another Scripture your generation does not take to heart. It is Luke 11:13 which says, “So if you who are evil know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him”. Do you know what this means? The only request that gladdens God’s heart is the infilling of His Spirit. Instead of fasting and praying for things, let your generation start praying for infilling of the Holy Spirit and you will be surprised at what the LORD would do in your midst.

Shepherd Heart: Wow! This is an awesome revelation. That was exactly what the early church did as recorded in Acts 4:23-31 after the apostles were flogged by Jewish leaders for preaching in the name of Yeshua. In verse 29 they prayed, “Now LORD, look on their threats and grant that Your servants may speak Your word with boldness, by stretching out Your hand to heal and that signs and wonders may be performed in the name of Your holy Son, Yeshua”. God granted their request instantly for verse 31 says that “When they had prayed, the place they were assembled together was shaken. And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and spoke the word of God with boldness”. This ties in with your admonition that we should seek the infilling of the Holy Spirit primarily.

Joshua: I can assure you that the church is nothing without the power of the Holy Spirit. This is the reason your generation is not making much impact on the world. How on earth were 120 people able to turn their known world upside down in a positive way and yet billions of believers in your generation cannot do it? Their secret was the auction of the Holy Spirit. Without it, you are as empty as any other religion on earth. In fact, Yeshua did not actually birth a religion but a movement- the greatest rescue of all times. He came to rescue souls from the pit of hell. He said in John 20:21, “As My Father sent Me, so also I am sending you”. What did He send His followers to do? When He called Peter in Mathew 4:9, He said to him, “Come, follow Me, and I will make you become fishers of men”. That is what He expects from every believer. That was the trust of His message in John 15 which emphasised fruit bearing. You bear fruit in the Kingdom of God to the extent of your consecration and yielding to the Holy Spirit to use you to depopulate the kingdom of darkness.

Shepherd Heart: I agree with you Sir. There aren’t many believers in our generation that are willing to give their all to the Kingdom, including their lives. We are a fearful lot. The early church operated in the kind of boldness that is alien to us. Another major deficiency in the modern church is lack of leadership. Apart from the tutelage you received under Moses, God gave you the most effective leadership guidance of all in Joshua 1:8, “This Book of the Law must not depart from your mouth; meditate on it day and night, so that you may be careful to do everything written in it. For then you will prosper and succeed in all you do”. What challenges did you face in obeying this instruction?

Joshua: When God commands humans to do something, it is because the contrary would be harmful to them. It is like building a bridge across a river to enable people pass over in safety. If you decide that using the bridge is too restrictive and decide to swim across the river instead, who takes the blame if you drown in your foolishness? 1 John 5:3 asserts that God’s commandments are not grievous. In plain language, obeying them does not expose us to any harm. I knew that I could only succeed by relying on His wisdom and that was what I did.

Shepherd Heart: If you were given an opportunity to address believers in this hour, what else would you say to us?

Joshua: The first thing I would underscore would be emphasis on the word of God rather than interpretation of Scriptures by theologians. Biblical illiteracy has reached an alarming level in the modern church because most believers are contented to have their pastors and other church leaders interpret Scriptures for them instead of relying on the help of the Holy Spirit. That is why ministers who fall into heresy continue to pull crowds since their followers lack basic spiritual discernment. It is also important that the church must return to the true gospel of Yeshua which emphasises repentance by humans and faith in His finished work on the cross. Lastly, prayer is not given the desired attention by most believers, except it is self-centred. The church must learn to pray according to the will of God. It can only do this by yielding to the leading of the Holy Spirit.

Shepherd Heart: We needed to hear this amazing message Sir. You have blessed us tremendously.  I pray that God would use your words of wisdom to help the church reposition itself for greater impact as we await the return of Yeshua for His bride. Thank you very much Sir.

Joshua:  Thanks once again for having me. I enjoyed sharing my thoughts with you and your readers.